So, how do you want this society to be?

Imagine OU is a big society. Actually, it is.
So first, let's imagine...

It's a town, or even a country. MMDing, drawing, OTOing are all jobs. When you don't know how to do something, you ask a "professional". The mods? They will be the government. Say, you won't love the government to be a dictator, right? But you have to show that you're mature enough to be trusted, right?
Now let's switch to if you were a mod.
It's sure that you want the forums to be perfect, no problems at all, but is that possible? "Nobody is perfect", (do I have to credit for this sentence? Right, thanks Kenji) right? Don't try to keep everything running on the tiny path you created. Let's take an easy example, have you taken care of young kids? Like, around 2 or 3? They have their own ways of doing things, right? Like, if you play cars with them, you tell them to "go down the street until X" maybe they'll turn the little car in another street halfway there. You'll probably tell them "oh well, that's good too" instead of "No! That's wrong! Do as I tell!"

But what I see in this forums?
Just like a little kindergarten from China. They want the kids to follow EXACT RULES... Well, you know how this turns out. But us, people in the forums, we are not that much better. We can sometimes act like little kids, somehow "forcing" them to be like that...

But the thing is, in which free country you haven't seen people drawing the government as some ridiculous things? This is a sacrifice worth it or not?

People seeing others over themselves oftenly are the most appreciated ones.

...Ok it's getting pretty hard to understand at the end, but i don't have much time...

well this all comes back to the mod thing from long ago... there are only 3 mods. it never was enough then and is not now, the only one i see on most of the time is halo and she can't really be everywhere at once ._. and myst and mathieu are busy with school(same situation as it was then). 3 people in charge, and you can't just go around appointing friends to be mod either, there should be screenings (remember mae and misha as mods? and yesi doesn't like forums much but she did some other helpful things while she was here).

so getting rid of the chatbox due to limitations is reasonable but can be easily fixed through some alternative means, maybe a chatbox that's open and seen by all including guests?

but yes i agree that a community like this is like a town,village or city not everyone follow the rules and those people should be confronted when breaking a rule (but if it's minor a warning is fine @A@;; ). i dunno what the case was for the chat disappearing i wasn't on but it does seem severe (though i'm still uberly curious what it was >.<; ).

but the forums do feel so quiet now ._.

You know what I think? I think everybody who is ranting should just leave. Stop whining and do something if you think you know it all better than others people. I've been quiet for a long, long time, ignored every useless rant about our community. BUT I'VE HAD ENOUGH! You are all fighting like you're four year old and not getting the Christmas gift you want! I know not all of you are adults, but at least try to act like your age okay? If you're dissapointed try to make an actual change instead of posting a rant that becomes the next flaming topic. Myst probably had a good reason to close the chatbox. Don't blame her. Blame the people who don't have the social skills to keep it a safe and happy place to be. I don't see this forum as a kindergarten in China. I see this place as a public playground full of toddlers who all need too much attention from the caretakers.

i don't blame myst and i do think what she did was reasonable under her circumstances.

smeen wrote:You know what I think? I think everybody who is ranting should just leave. Stop whining and do something if you think you know it all better than others people. I've been quiet for a long, long time, ignored every useless rant about our community. BUT I'VE HAD ENOUGH! You are all fighting like you're four year old and not getting the Christmas gift you want! I know not all of you are adults, but at least try to act like your age okay? If you're dissapointed try to make an actual change instead of posting a rant that becomes the next flaming topic. Myst probably had a good reason to close the chatbox. Don't blame her. Blame the people who don't have the social skills to keep it a safe and happy place to be. I don't see this forum as a kindergarten in China. I see this place as a public playground full of toddlers who all need too much attention from the caretakers.

*insert slow clap here*

And now for my two cents:

While I was gone before the chatbox closed, I'm disappointed that there's such a huge fuss going on. It's a chatbox, a smaller bit of a larger domain: the forum.

I might've used the chatbox more often than not, but that's not the point. The point is that Myst had previously warned about the abuse, the abuse went on anyway, and so Myst followed through with what she'd said would happen. It honestly shouldn't be a surprise.

You want change? Go make it. Don't sit and whine about the injustices of everything. You don't like it? Tough. Like numerous people have said in a nutshell: That's life.

My entire philosophy boils down to this: try not to get into drama. You start drama, things start getting crazy and people start taking sides. You get sucked into drama, it's not your fault. It's only if you start drama that things go against you.

I honestly don't want the community to split into three: chatboxers vs. everyone else, and the neutral ones who are friends with both sides. It's not a very fun setup, especially for those who've gone through similar situations before.

In conclusion:
Psycho, you're making too big of a deal over this. We lost our privileges for the chatbox, big deal! Don't try to split the forum by claiming the mods as tyrants or dictators, because that's definitely not a wise move.

*steps off soapbox* I'm sorry, that just had to be said. ._.;

This community is nothing without unity. Get the rubber duck over yourselves and learn to work together. How can we be a community when it's "All about me"?

This is my view on the matter. And that is all.

i have to point this out i don't really care what anyone says about what i have to say right now.

but this forum is feeling like my old RO server; no mods around or only one around but can't be everywhere at once and after the damage is done the rest of the mods swoop in to do something
finally taking action but it's too late so they come up with something to prevent the same thing happening again or something like it by either finally hiring more mods or creating more rules.

https://overseasutau.forumotion.net/vocaloid-f34/vocaloid-otaku-forums-are-back-up-t895.htm#7996
case and point

the mods and admin were by no means corrupt they were nice (dude aele was a freakin mod there! and every time i would have to defend her on a daily bases when she and 2 other mods i actually knew where awesome people! hell i even actually wanted to yodeling punch one guy when he said he wanted aele dead =_= ever say you want someone to die around me and expect pain ) but because of lack of modding; lack of authority figures when they were needed, the "bad seeds" usually came out and this caused an uproar among the people cause there's nothing much a person can do but to just avoid or hope an admin/mod gets a message several hours later. a mod or admin can ban, mute, or w/e and if they have limited powers it doesn't freakin matter! a bully or a bad seed usually gets quiet and meek when a mod is around period! but by the end of all this everyone left and most everyone just found the mods and admins to be corrupt. i'm not saying you guys are because you're cool people but with how things are going other people could.

it's completely understandable that people have lives but not getting enough mods per person ratio is asking for trouble! i was in this drama before and it looks to me this site will circle the drain unless people get their acts together and do things and be more productive.

and yes it was understandable that myst had to take down the chatbox to prevent any more flaming, bashing or w/e went on it while i was out. but from my point of view from previous experiences it was very very preventable.

i don't honestly want to see this forum die i like it here and the people are fun and yes smeen is right about the toddler playhouse thing. but seriously if this forum ends up like my old RO server where jerks and jackasses come around with little to no mod support... i'm gone >_> i can handle them and beat them off, but it's not worth the trouble of trying to help "pretend mod" and only getting in trouble in the end by an actual mod or admin that are rarely around when i'm just trying to protect my friends D;<

i really don't mean to be bashing the mods but this is my experience of the revolt that happened on my server when it wasn't always the normal people's fault. yes there were manipulative bad seeds (dude i should tell you about a suzaku i knew that got away with everything till the admin finally caught on [2 years later] that he was the instigator of it all and finally banned him). i often would get asked by people to escort them or help them train in the server. i still remember that one time having to protect yoru from two drunkards playing the game player killing in low level areas!

i was just a normal person just trying to help people but i still got in trouble!

now yes i have ranted about twitter before so that was my rant about this forum
it's incompetence by all of us.

and i can say i have defended people who come here i defended halo when someone spoke ill of her and i would do the same for everyone else.

EDIT i forgot to mention aele was like one of the only active mods her and maybe one other person dealing with 20+ complaints from 40+ people

I agree with you Nashi. I have experienced something like that myself on a forum I am not gouing to name at the moment. The forum-subject suddenly became popular and the mods couldn't handle it. Flaming started and when I left there was a war going on between the 'elder' members and the 'newer' members. It's a bit like what is happening here now. Those who are longer in the fandom start complaining about the 'new generation'. Without realizing that we will tear down the community with our whining and ranting and flaming and fighting. I'm not only taking about the forum, this is about Twitter, MSN, YouTube and whatever you guys want to involve in this. The Japanese UTAUs are so popular because they work as ONE COMMUNITY. Not as tiny little groups that don't care about anything except themselves. And that's how we are acting right now.

but at least we've realized this fact about us and i want to do more to prevent all this stuff from happening or cushion the blows or something ._.

Whoa. Whoa. Whoa.
First off. First off.
I am /STILL/ a mod on this forum. It seems your information gathering skills are faulty here.
As a mod, I have NEVER had anyone come up to me and say there was a problem. I primarily LURK on this forum. I'm not a huge poster, but trust me, I have read the majority of threads posted here. Do I think myself the most knowledgeable at UTAU. No. Do I post in the chattbox all the time. Hardly.
Back when the community was younger, I was more active. I dont have 800 something posts for nothing.
ut putting me on the same level as Mae when I had done NOTHING wrong expect not be the most active, is rather insulting. In most cases of drama, most members resolve, as they SHOULD be, on their own. In cases of mod help being needed, people always turn to Myst for that, so I'm not 100% what you want me to do.

If you want me to baby all of you, and not believe that you can solve your problems on your own. I will. I can do that.
Excuse me if I tried to have a little faith in you guys.
But as proven time and time again, it seems it cant happen this way.

If I don't hear about it, I can't DO anything about it.
I don't SEE trolls here. The majority of people I see here are helpful people that really want to make friends and have fun with others.
If you want to judge the whole forum on a few people, then please. Leave. Take your drama with you.

If people are getting nasty in the chatbox, that's their OWN problem. That is a fast paced area where once you've said something, it's done. You can't edit your post.

"Our successes are viewed as a community, and our failures are individual."
- This is how I've always viewed things.

Saying these things are preventable is LAUGHABLE. Things like this are predetermined the moment you realize what type of person you are talking too.
People are going to talk poopie. This isn't kindergarten. We are capable of understanding what we are saying, and the consequences attached to this.
This community is hardly the most angelic. But we are still a hell of a lot better a bunch other communities
For what it's worth, this is one of the NICER communities I've been a part of. So to doggy-woggie-poo about leaving while basing everything off the chatbox is ridiculous. Completely ridiculous. Its like singling out 10% of the population and pointing the ruin of this forum at them, while IGNORING the other 90%.

All I've seen you do is ring the alarm for matters that have always existed and will ALWAYS exist. You think more mods are going to make people stop talking poopie? You think the community will be magically 'fixed'? If you think that, I'm sorry to say you're wrong.

Misha, don't get me wrong. We don't need more mods. We need people who think twice before saying something. Of course the drama will not be fixed by bringing in more mods, it will simply move to another place on the internet. This is real life, not a fairytale, and in real life people will clash. I support our mods as they are now. You guys are people, with a real life, you can't play police agent on the internet for 24/7. We need to get more responsable ourselves if we want to make things better.

Ok rubber duck this...

Guys who are complaining just because a chatbox was taken away because people could not be mature. Shut the hell up, Get over your egos and grow up please.

We where told, "keep acting like twats and it will go away"
It's just like in real life, You have privileges but if you
abuse those privileges they get taken away.

This is not nursey school you are not little children who don't know better, most of you are in double-didjet ages, ACT LIKE IT.


people who are complaining because the mods are human and can't be on all the time: Report more, whine less.
This place is -tame-, it's one of the most drama-sparse places I have ever seen in the entire internet.
It's a small fourm with a small community, comparing to a Game sever is just plain dumb. It doesn't -need- half a dozen mods, It needs people to report the small dramas and rule breakers.

A forum this size only needs three to five mods at the most with varying timezones. With more being added the bigger it gets.


Basicly, everything Misha said.

i never knew you were still mod and everyone i asked didn't know if you were or not either.

and i didn't mean to put you on the same level you were both different mae everyone was just scared of mae and you would just disappear and i believe you have gotten two strikes on you before one for refusing to login to the forums when someone asked you directly over twitter for help and i don't remember what the the other one was for. and right now you sound very angry and very unlike a mod right now and i don't often see you here modding. i even see myst and halo modding at times even when they can't be as active as they want to be. i didn't mean to sound as if i was attacking you nor put you on the same level as mae again two different situations.

and i realize it can't be magically fixed but it can be managed and improved upon.
and by what you say you sound like you could care less about any situation involving this and soley did this because of the mae and you on the same level thing again i apologize.

i do see helpful people all the time from here i do agree with that.

actually things are preventable and yes things would still happen but it would be less often and not be such an impact when authority is around to help the situation as a mod should. they're there to help at a given notice, sure we can all be very mature but eventually something bursts and someone just has to get things off their chests and if enough people are there they all start talking about it. i'm not saying becoming robotic police because that would only make situations worse but by becoming more active mods and down to earth (like they already are) it would help situation and prevent hate towards them.

MariRoseTair wrote:Ok rubber duck this...

Guys who are complaining just because a chatbox was taken away because people could not be mature. Shut the hell up, Get over your egos and grow up please.

We where told, "keep acting like twats and it will go away"
It's just like in real life, You have privileges but if you
abuse those privileges they get taken away.

This is not nursey school you are not little children who don't know better, most of you are in double-didjet ages, ACT LIKE IT.


people who are complaining because the mods are human and can't be on all the time: Report more, whine less.
This place is -tame-, it's one of the most drama-sparse places I have ever seen in the entire internet.
It's a small fourm with a small community, comparing to a Game sever is just plain dumb. It doesn't -need- half a dozen mods, It needs people to report the small dramas and rule breakers.

A forum this size only needs three to five mods at the most with varying timezones. With more being added the bigger it gets.


Basicly, everything Misha said.

but most of the mods login at night (well night my time) and not barely around or rarely around during the morning hours

maybe this thread should be locked now because this will just continue in circles

First off, the twitter thing is a lie ._____.
That never happened. And if it did no one told me. So I don't know who you are talking to, because this is wrong information.
And I dont know what my second strike is either.
So it would be GREAT if someone would explain these things to me.

And like I said, Myst mods because people TELL her to. I would if you told me .____.
Besides, it's always Myst and Halo, but it feels like I'm the only mod that gets attacked for not being active. There are six mods here and you only count those as helping, so ._____.
And when I see drama unraveling, it's usually already taken care of by the time I see what's going on.

And I'm sorry if I sound angry. I'm not. I don't usually get angry over the internet. (expect in politics lol)
If you think talking in a stern voice is angry, then.... I don't know.
This is actually just me being dynamic.

And I was actually going to post in this topic BEFORE I saw what you wrote about me.
Because I like ethics I like these types of questions.

If you think its something that just 'BURST' from someones chest, then thats probably untrue. Things dont just BURST out. There is a steady progression to that point. If people allow it to get to that steady progression, then... well. It was allowed by the people.
Yes. I believe there must be rules laid out. I am a firm supporter of this.
At the same time, if you feel something wrong is being said, you can step in too. Rather then just being upset, you can get active. PM the person. Tell them what they are doing is wrong.
Then if /that/ doesnt work, you go to a mod.
Of course you can skip that and just go straight to a mod, but some things are done in the heat of the moment. Sometimes its best to get the full story before ringing the alarm on people.

Sorry if I'm rambling now xD;;

EDIT;
and no I will not lock this thread.
If another mod wants too... then go ahead
But why should we keep RUNNING away from this problem.

Or heck, we can just get it back on track.
I'm not going to lock a thread because there is a debate going on.

i usually take a screenshot and show the mod when things truly get out of hand and when i know that something needs to be done, but for a good while now i haven't had too cause it was quite peacuful till all this weird stuff happened @A@;;

and yeah your right it starts off seeping into convos *is uber tired*

maybe the complaints should be divided up if some mods get more than others? so each mod can tackle each situation so it's not all on one persons shoulders.

i'll send some things to you and others if i see anything going on.

now maybe this should be locked we've resolved some issues it'd probly be bad to keep it open too long.

I don't wanna be a God wannabe or something, but you guys (well, ALL the people who complains about how much does suck this community) look like one of those bad politicians that do nothing but talk, complain and argue and throw sh!t at everybody.
Before looking people's errors, we have to look to ourselves.
That's why I don't write and talk too much, because my English sucks and many times I get missunderstood because of that, and then everybody hate me and blah blah...
Also I don't wanna be bad with you, believe me, sometimes is good that somebody shows you the truth in your face.
We have to solve this problem right now because if we don't, it isn't going to be solved. Simple as that.
So, I'm making my part...did you make yours? ; )

And I think we need mods with the time for regulate in the forums, remember that quantity isn't more important than quality.
And I think we just have to ignore the trolling, flaming and all that. If you can't change the opinion or attitude of somebody, remember that they can't change yours too.
I mean, if someone is trolling A LOT and being a b!tch with like, almost everybody, just ban him/her, don't make such a big scandal just because of an idiot.

(Sorry, I suck at writing in English XD but I hope you guys can get my idea.)

vodKata wrote:Kata's text here. XD

Dude, your English is fine. XD

Also, I agree with you. I see a lot of complaining and not a lot of doing anything about it. ; w ;

And honest to GOD, I don't see that much trolling or bashing or any of it going on, really. :l Maybe I'm out of the loop or something, but most of the time everyone does seem really civil and helpful. It certainly doesn't seem to be the raging problem people are making it out to be. But if it is a problem, then we shouldn't have to rely on the mods to fix it. We should attempt to fix it ourselves and not complain that there aren't enough mods.

The mods are doing a fine job. :l They do as much as they can, which is more than enough when we're acting the way we're supposed to.

personally i just do a forget and move on sort of thing...

I think this thread is a wonderful example as to what we need to do:

1. Less complainin' moar lovin'.
2. Less rantin'. Moar UTAU.
3. Less whinin'. Moar maturity.

I feel like we're all at the point where we're absolutely fed up with what has been plaguing us and bothering us since the beginning of the fandom, and I don't begrudge people of that frustration because a lot of people feel it and need to get it out of their system.

But a new rage thread like, daily? What is this the rage pit? No, it's feedback.

^this right here.^

On that note, I'm going to make an utauloid sing a cover with this *tear* ust I just downloaded.

Lighten up, get over it, let's make music.

Taiwonton said it all.
We need a reality check here, guys.
Many of the points made here are quite true. We need a bit more unity and little less self-centered-ness. Things like that may take time, but that's the beauty of change, eh?

Now, I'm not fed-up at all with this (since I actually like drama), but what I do feel is slight disappointment in how you guys run the drama. It's... immature, really. Rants are good, but... I listen to like, three per week... three DIFFERENT ones. That's just... wow. o_o;
It's good to vent, and it's good to address issues... but perhaps look at other rants and don't bring up the same issues? That'll just make this place LOOK bad. Do you want this place to look bad? ;<

Now, I'm not saying Psycho is incorrect or anything, but... honestly, we have no room to criticize how we all interact as one body because... where the Hell is the body anyways? One part is over here, one's over there... waaahhhh so many places. o_o;

For the mods? They're doing a great job. Myst is ABSOLUTELY correct when she says that Mods CANNOT ninja their way into any situation and control it. It's a mutual relationship, guys. You have to be responsible people and screencapture these things. Maybe this chatbox being taken away is just a huge punishment for some (and I only mean some as in 'you know who you are') who weren't diligent enough? Am I being hypocritical? Nah. I'm part of those "some people," too.

Guys, can we like... have some solidarity amongst each-other? Can we like, make pretty UTAU things and talk about UTAU things and talk about other interesting stuff?
We can right? Right.
Why do we have this problem, though? ;<
Also, Misha, I thank-you for being stoic and deciding not to close down this thread. I'm actually a little tired of people running away from these types of threads. It's called CONFRONTATION. It's unhealthy to avoid CONFRONTATION, did'ja know that? ;x Because then, you won't like, learn anything. I'm pretty sure there is no one who's trying to offend anyone here anyways. xDD

I dunno. My points are probably invalid or something, but... meh, I felt like giving my own thoughts in this.

...Guys, honestly, almost the only negativity I see around here is in threads like these. XD;; Psycho, if you really disagree with how the mods are running things, you should be discussing it with them over PM. Discussing it with everyone else does nothing except give everyone another excuse to argue. Myst disabled the chatbox for a very legitimate reason and with plenty of warning. That really doesn't sound unreasonable to me at all.

Honestly, it seems to me like most of the "drama" around here is people making a big deal out of things that really aren't a big deal. I don't mean to sound overly harsh but please get over it.

S-Sorry, I'm just kind of fed up with all this, it seems like there's a new RAEG thread every other day. XD;;

I honestly think that the chatbox was taken down for a good reason like everyone else. However, if something happens then why doesn't anyone report it? That should happen if the issue couldn't be properly resolved. I hope no one was going by the whole "snitches get stitches" thing because its not like someone would be a tattle tale.

andthisallcamefromapersonwhodoesntreallypost ._.

Oh, I'm sick of this!
We mods are in no way tyrants, and if you think that, you obviously have never lived under one!

Stop. Being mean. To Acorn and Myst.
I don't give a -Blam!- What you think about me, though. Say what you will, but they didn't do anything |:

Anyway, back to the modding subject...
Why wasn't this locked? This is just /asking/ for flaming. So I'm locking it. Ooh, look, a mod locking something because she doesn't like it.

I'm just... a bit fed up with drama. I don't understand why you can't all just be mature enough to just... Well, if it's not huge, just ignore it, or if it's a big problem, bring it up PRIVATELY.

It's really not difficult.


And I'm the only permanently scheduled Admin!Mod, I think.
Like... I don't see Misha around that often, and not sure whether she has all the permissions.
But I do, and I'm on every afternoon from 3:30PM to when I go to sleep, and as often as I can of weekends.

I don't do school, so this is fine with me. I just with I was in your timezones so I could be on in a more active time.

Misha, I'm making you show up as a Mod so this doesn't happen again. *adds you to mod group* Don't understand why you didn't do it beforehand.
As for Psycho, next time you think we're being jerks/tyrants etc, I ask that you PM one/all of us and tell us what you would do better and how. ^^'' Seriously. I'm not kidding.